Trusting Your Gut Beats Following Playbooks - year-end reflections of Melanie and Christian

Ignore most of the advice that you get because there is such a survival bias that, and you sometimes have that with very particular wannabe advisors that just say, Hey, you absolutely have to go, let's say to the U S you absolutely have to do sales, growth, whatever it is, but it is just the thing that works the best for their company, but it doesn't take into account the context that the company that you have is. And I think there is really, I mean, that's the whole also definition of having a startup that you probably are doing something that no one else has done before. And so it just comes with the definition that there are not really advices on it. So this is why you are the founder and you are kind of pushing forward.

This is Melanie. And this is Christian. You're listening to Follow the Gradient, the weekly podcast with actionable insights about how to build a business while staying sane. you

Welcome to the final episode of the year and it has been a long year, very long year and so much has happened here at Follow the Gradient. It has been so much fun to do this and to continue doing this and to be able to talk to so many different interesting people. And you guys have asked us so many different questions throughout the year on what is actually our take, the take of Melanie and myself. On some of the different questions we have run through the guests and which we asked in the different episodes and in our newsletters. And you have asked us what our biggest takeaway is from these conversations, which we had. And so the year has come to an end and we will make this episode about the learnings we had throughout the conversations and reflect a little bit on the things we have heard. And at this point, I also want to say a really big thank you to all of you out there for taking this journey together with us. Because I think Melanie. No one of us would have thought that we'd this far. No way. And I can only say yes, a big, big thank you for anyone who is listening, for anyone who is sharing their insights. There are also improvements, suggestions, ideas for guests, ideas for content. So we hugely appreciate it because I mean, I'm not sure whether everyone knows that, but we're doing that as a side hustle night shifts, weekend projects where others sleep. We do follow the gradient. And so this is really the fuel that keeps us going and also keeps us showing why we're showing up each and every week. And that is truly amazing. We also wanted to share because normally on the podcast, we only talk about the guests. We only talk about the insights from the guests, but I'm not sure whether everyone knows that we also run.

this weekly newsletter. Of course, the one on Thursday when the podcast episode comes out is really about the insights about the guests, because we have also ton of subscribers that never listen to podcasts, but they know very well what is going on on the podcast, because we do a summary, we do the latest insights, but also additional questions. But then on Tuesday, actually, and this was actually one of the initial ideas that we both had, that we would start with the newsletter where we bring together latest tech gossip, the tech news of the week, one meme and I know from people, I don't call out any names that only are subscribed to the newsletter because they want to see the meme that we picked. We also share food for thought, European startups that are currently hiring and one good read and a lot of visual and quotes that... Many, many people say that they really like it. So we just wanted to also make sure that people understand we basically have this two things, a podcast and also a newsletter that stands on their own. And so if people think how could they actually help us and how could they help us grow, it's really by, if you're not subscribed to the newsletter, then please do that under followthegradient.io, but then also hit subscribe on Spotify or YouTube or any of our social channels. Because I also know that, and we see that also in the statistics, that there many people who are listening, but not everyone is a follower. So that of course helps us to actually get the reach that we want. But as you said, Christian, we thought we'd do a special episode to kind of also show a little bit behind the scenes. And I think one thing that we also realized... But when we looked back at 2025 and just also where we actually started, we started off and to be very honest, and I think that's the classic, like who was listening to the first episodes? Of course, grandma, our best friend, and maybe our partners and friends that just thought, let's support them somehow. So that of course also led to the fact that we never properly introduced ourselves. We never said who we are because it was clear.

The 10 people that listened to the first episode, they knew us by heart. And so we also thought, why don't we, before we also dive a little bit deeper into the questions that we normally ask our guests, why don't we actually just share a little bit of where we're coming from and why we are asking certain questions and why are we so keen on actually learning more about it? so Christian, let's be just picking you as the first person out of two. What is your relationship with entrepreneurship? Why are you spending most of your free time on sharing and looking for insights about how to scale a business in Europe while staying sane? So tell me more about yourself. Yeah, I mean, sometimes I'm also asking myself, why am I doing all these night shifts? But it is a lot of fun. mean, I've been hustling different things pretty much all time since university when I was a student. And I spent the first couple of years of my career in consulting, very classic, had nothing to do with entrepreneurship, but it was very good because it gave a very nice intro into the professional workplace and how to behave there. And then I moved to a back then super early stage, FinTech was the founding employee there, Yokoi. And this is where we both met then, Melanie and I built up the entire post sales organization there. And for quite some time now I'm with a different Series A company where I'm leading the entire commercial unit. So marketing, sales and customer success. Why am I spending my spare time with this podcast and with our newsletter? I mean, first and foremost, it is a lot of fun. That's the most important ingredient. Otherwise I really couldn't be doing this. And intellectually actually, I find the content business very challenging and that makes it very, very interesting. And that also makes it fun. But I think that's, I think, think essentially who I am. So, so what about you?

Yeah, I was actually reflecting on that question a lot, being the entrepreneur or just like the founder journey. And if I look back, I think my curiosity was always the main driver why I did things. And for a very long time, I didn't actually realize that the things that I do from scratch and where I kind of push the boundaries and kind of think differently than the ways things have been so far is what we normally call entrepreneurial. And also I didn't know that Being a founder and creating a startup is actually a career path that you can pick. And so, yeah, I think my first touch point where when two friends and I decided to create a clothing swap app, pre Instagram, pre everything. So we just thought, Hey, let's fix this problem of having too many clothes, but never enough. And so changing that across back then Switzerland. with other people, just upload clothing and then kind of swap it. So that was the first, I would say, startup. And then the other one, and it might not look obvious, but for me, this was really where I learned a ton and taught myself everything that I know about building a brand from scratch was actually a musical where we were three to five people who just thought like, let's take 250 people, young people and create a musical, compose all the music. create the whole play and raise funding for that because it was a three years project and then presented in front of 8,000 people and we managed that and I was leading that musical and I think that was really where I was very much into a founder mode. And then of course the most, the one that people know me most about is the story of Yokoi that I co-founded in 2019 together with my four co-founders. And there, for those who don't know, Yokoi is an AI driven fintech. We scaled from five people to 250 people in roughly four years. So we had offices in six countries, raised more than a hundred millions from the likes of Sequoia and then sold the company early this year. And so I think this kind of in a nutshell, my kind of touch points with entrepreneurship. And today I'm, and

co-director and CEO of the ETH AI Center. Now at first sight one might think how comes that a founder goes to university and kind of does things there. And to be honest, if you had asked me probably just one year ago, I would have told you never. Just out of my understanding of what a university is. But I was always driven by just two questions. Like, where do I have the most impact and where is my learning curve the steepest? And by definition, this was always being an entrepreneur and being a founder, but it was never being a founder for the sake of being a founder. It was really just my curiosity. And now like being there, it's really like, I mean, I don't have to tell anyone what AI is doing at the moment to our society, to the possibilities. And so I'm very excited to basically now not only do my own startup, but empower others to hopefully see a lot of other startups that are popping up here in Europe. So that's a quick introduction to who we are. And now we thought that we would also, on the one hand, pick or share the questions or some of the questions that we receive from listeners or from readers of our newsletters, but then also ask ourselves the questions that we normally ask asks our guests. So one question that we received from Thomas on LinkedIn was, I'm very interested to understand what's the single biggest lesson from your guests that changed how you approach your work. So what was that for you, Yeah, that is a, that was a very interesting question to think about. And I actually came to the conclusion about one point which might seem very obvious and which I thought was also something which I'm sticking to or which is very obvious, but it's the mindset to really think big from day one and to think international. We had these couple, we had these thoughts a couple of time. I think that

Nicole Bütner actually in an interview with us said that, or she kind of criticized that many European founders or startups or founding teams are, let's say, too humble. I think we also had one or two episodes where interviewees from the VC world said that, and we had recently a conversation with Behr, founder from Z2, who also said that for instance, Swiss startups or for some of the startups from European continent like Netherlands. You really have to think about internationalization from day one. And I found that thought very, the thought kind of stuck with me because I do experience that a lot when I think about some of the stuff myself, or when you are in, when you are advising some, some other startups or you're doing work on your own, you sometimes walk out of these conversations and think, okay, they, or we are really working on something which does make sense, but somehow we think about. home market, our home turf, our home territory only. And I think conquering the home turf first is very important and often the only thing that makes sense. But do it with a mindset which is really big from day one. And somehow that really stuck with me. Although I also always had the feeling that I would be thinking about that from the very beginning or many teams are thinking about it from the beginning. They are raising with that kind of promise, but you don't necessarily see it in daily life. or in day-to-day work. And that's why I kind of took that answer. Yeah. How about you? Yeah, and it's just on that. think it's just like the consequences that it has is, for example, just when it comes to talent. If you think internationally from the very first day, you also have such a big talent pool compared to just like thinking for the home market and so on. So yeah, definitely a huge learning. I was also, and I find it's always so hard if somebody asked what is your one lesson? Because the luxury that we have is that we have so many people on the podcast and

To be honest, mean, why are we doing this podcast? I'm especially doing that also to always have an excuse to pick the brains of the most brilliant people here in Europe. So I just love like being in these conversations. So if I had to distill or just like one kind of sentence or one thing that stuck with me, but that I cannot pinpoint to one person, but it came up again and again, it was really this basically saying no is a growth skill. It's like this focus, focus, focus, and it's so easy to say, but it's so, so hard to actually do it it can be on a personal level, like, especially as a founder, you get invited to give talks, you get invited to whatnot to go to startup events. is this really serving the purpose of kind of building your company? But then really also when it comes to product, like what do you do? You hopefully spend day and night with your customers, but then to really distinguish like what are you doing and that is kind of helping you to grow the company very fast. And where do you just say, no, this doesn't serve the purpose. I think that is really, really a skill that you need to be very good at. And I think that is in one form or the other, like many of our guests said that. So another question that we got. was, I think from Katerina, what is the single most underrated founder skill? So what is it for you, So I think for me, it's really the ability for introspection because when we talk about on also, think in the public debate, talk about founding teams, their skills and what they need. You obviously, often hear sales skills or some skills which are really about, can you create a vision? Can you sell that vision to investors? Can you sell that vision to customers, to employees? Because I mean, obviously so many things.

on your ability to sell a vision. Can you hire the right people? Do they stick with you? Do they have a reason to kind of hustle along with you? Or when we, for instance, talk about really technical founders, you see that in the robotics space or deep tech space or now with AI, it's about technical acumen. And people then often say, okay, does he or she have a certain area of expertise in a given field? And I think this is all true. The question is about kind of what is underrated. And for me, it's really that are you able to reflect? Are you able to introspect? Because this will drive a lot if you can learn along the way, learn from your mistakes and improve your own learning curve. And you also mentioned right now, like earlier, okay, you want to have a steep learning curve. And I think this is what it's all about. We all want to have a steep learning curve. Many people want that, but to really be able to execute on a steep learning curve. means that you have to kind of take the mistakes, which you constantly do reflect on them and learn, learn, learn, learn about them. And for me, that is really something which people do not often talk about. We sometimes heard that in the conversations we had it sometimes in our kind of exclusive questions, which we then only share in the newsletter. Some people talking about that for me, that is really the most underrated founder skill. Yeah. Yeah. Like when I think about it, it certainly like it also connects with what I was thinking. And I'm not even sure whether it's a skill or whether it's just the ability that you either have or not, but it's really, find the most fascinating founders are the ones that are also emotionally intelligent. And it connects with having this ability to reflect about themselves, how they want to become better. Really, and I think that is what I also mean with being emotionally intelligent, not let ego stand in their way. this eager to also have the people that you bring in success, have their successes, because you cannot do everything on your own. You need the people that really have to drive, that are hopefully even better than you. And I often see founders having...

also lot of ego and then thinking that they are the only ones who know what is right. And so I think that is certainly for the most successful founders where I feel like they have this ability to kind of also be humble enough to kind of always think what is the best for the company and what is the best for my own ego. So that is certainly one, but I'm not sure if that's real skill or something you either have or not. that's. Yeah. And it can, and I think also it's, it's, it's a very natural reaction to sometimes be very, let's say focused on your, on yourself, right? Because obviously you cannot survive a funding round or a successful funding round without any type of ego. You get so many. So you, so, so you need that. But then as you said, in other situations, you, it's kind of the wrong thing to focus on yourself. So it's a kind of balance. It's always give and take. No, no,

Maybe on that point we normally ask that our guests in our newsletter and I really like the question like what's one advice that the should actually ignore? Yeah, I mean, this was really hard to kind of pinpoint to one single point because I think there are a lot. I actually was thinking about the point about raising VC money. And what I mean with that is really that I sometimes do have the impression that the kind of LinkedIn bubble or this startup land bubble is quite one-sidedly recommending to go the venture capital route. And if you think about the asset class, what venture capital really is, it's really niche. It's appropriate for a very particular kind of business model in a very particular setting. And it requires a very particular economic path. And I think there's just so many really good companies out there, which where the venture capital route is not the most appropriate one to pursue. And sometimes I have the feeling that on the venture capital side, you have more money, which you have to deploy from your LPs. And there is business models out there, which would be appropriate. And then you create pressure to deploy and then you create pressure, social pressure in your bubble on the founder side that they have to accept it. And you want to announce your funding round on LinkedIn. And this kind of creates a circle, which, which sometimes I think is not the most healthy one. So I kind of took that to kind of say, ignore the advice that VC money is the only way. become economically successful or to build a sustainable business. It's one way which can be appropriate in a very particular setting, but think about so many other ways which are out there.

Absolutely. I actually thought basically ignore most of the advice that you get because there is such a survival bias that, and you sometimes have that with very particular wannabe advisors that just say, Hey, you absolutely have to go, let's say to the U.S. you absolutely have to do sales, let growth, whatever it is, but it's just the thing that works the best for their company, but it doesn't take into account like the context that the to. the company that you have is. And I think there is really, mean, that's the whole also definition of having a like a innovative startup that you probably are doing something that no one else has done before. And so it just comes with the definition that there are not really advices on it. So this is why you are the founder and you are kind of pushing forward. And so, yes, I think that is certainly something where you can listen to the advice. There is certainly also, especially when it comes to learning. But I always hesitant when founders ask me, Hey, what is your advice here? I can only share my learnings and my, how I did it back then, but I would never say this is the way how you need to do it. So I think the gut feeling is really, and a really big skill listening to it, because most often you actually know what is best for your company. So to say after kind of also bringing Esper twice, but then in the end you, you, it's, your, your judgment. Yeah, to kind of trust your own intuition also. And we had, so in preparation of this call, we had one question which I thought is really fitting for you now in your role at the ETH AI Center. So Alex asked us, how can or should a founder in your view approach or leverage academia so that it results into a solid partnership? you have a view there?

I of course, I would need to know more about Alex's but at the ETH AI Center, we have this fellowship program that is one of our key things that are happening. So basically 15 people, normally out of a selection of 1,300, get to get the possibility to do either the PhD or postdocs together with two professors, because we really believe in this interdisciplinary research when it comes to AI. And so in this case, you would of course already be researching at the university. Then we, for example, just had Mimic that we also had on the podcast, but then based on his research at ETH, he actually then created together with two co-founders startup. But if I read his question correctly, then he probably means if you're from the outside, how can you then team up with research? And I think there are several ways. To be very honest, mean, I'm there since July, so there is still stuff that I need to figure out. But the way that I saw it so far, it's, mean, in the end, you need to find a professor that is doing research that makes sense and kind of just connect with this person because most often they also have an interest in kind of collaborating with others, especially if you, for example, have data or if you have any other things. then a very easy way, I think, to actually collaborate is to have master's students that then also work with a professor, but then maybe work with your startup. And that can then evolve into something else. But it would really depend on what your background is. But in the end, it's also the professors are just human beings and making sure that you understand what their focus is and what their research papers say is already the first step into getting some insights into the research world, I would say. Yeah, makes sense. We had one question or we do have one question, which we usually ask every week to one of our podcast guests then in the newsletter section. And it's a very hard one, I think. And I was always surprised how many people are actually answering it or can really pinpoint it to a particular point. And that question is what is success for you? So, Ani, how would you answer that question?

Yeah, this is why I always ask the questions because I'm always so impressed by people who just have this one sentence where they can say this is it. I mean, I think it's twofold. For me personally, success is really doing something where you can build your life around and where you wake up every morning. And of course, we all know there are also mornings where you don't wake up with, yay. But in general, that you do something where you, that fulfills you and where you really see the impact that you can have, the reason why you're doing this, the reasons why you do this extra miles and extra miles, because you truly believe in it. I think for me, this is like having something successful personally. And then on the other hand, it's also, and again, it's very personally for me, success is If I manage to work on something while at the same time keeping my very close relationships with family or friends and having a balanced life. I mean, I work very a lot, but still having these relationships where I know whatever happens at work, even if everything fails and nothing works anymore, I still have these relationships and they are here because. of me as being a person and a human being and a loving person and friend and not because of any title that I have. And I think as long as I have that, then I feel that what I do is successful, so to say. But I think it's a very philosophical question that I truly like, but I find it very hard to say. is, yes. And I've also noted that people answer that very differently, which makes complete sense. And it is, I have to say, mean, personally, I would subscribe to anything you said. And I also think that first and foremost, it's important to not confuse success with happiness. What you also said, it's a very holistic question to answer in your life. And it's maybe you can define success in a very particular way when you want to do something at work.

But then it's something very specific, but in the long term, it's really maybe about happiness. would also say, I have to say success then really depends on the context. Because if I leave the happiness part out, which is something entirely different and success is only part of it, then I'm usually thinking about very particular challenges, which we have maybe at work or here at the podcast. And you want to achieve or master that challenge. And then you have a tick box behind it and you move on and then those success always changes. So yeah, it's it's a very, very hard question. Absolutely.

It was one other question, which I found very interesting because it's kind of connected to that question about success because one, one obvious success metric in our podcast is can we deliver every week because that's what we want to do. And can we, can we kind of get a guests which we find inspiring or where the audience says they are inspiring. And we found out that usually these guests are extremely busy. One of our listeners now asks, Loris. Did we like hear it? What he said? Yeah, sure. That's good idea. Let's actually listen into it. Hello, Melanie. Hello, Christian. This is Loris. I have a question. You always have great guests. I guess very busy people and seems like a superpower of you to connect with such people, to win them for a podcast to get their time. And that's my question. How do you do that? What's your strategy? Cause that's really a... Still, entrepreneurs need wind attention and the time of busy people. So it would be great to hear how you do that. What are also your learnings from your entrepreneurial career? Thank you for that. Let's follow the gradient. Okay. So that was Loris. And I think to break it down, it's really the people are so busy. Yeah.

How do you get them on the show? And what I like about that question maybe before I direct it to you is it really has a lot to do with classic sales and marketing techniques. So it can be applied to so many different scenarios, but I mean, Melanie, what would you say? In the end, it's the people's business. Yes, I mean, you can call it marketing sales, but honestly, these people that we have on the show, they're so busy, cannot reach them with like, I mean, cold call. Yes. In the sense that we also had guests that I didn't know personally before, and I reached out to them on LinkedIn. However, what often is maybe not seen is that if I reach out to a person on LinkedIn that I hadn't Yeah.

have any touch points before, then probably I have spent three to five hours researching about this person, reading articles, listening to podcasts, seeing whether I can be of any value for this person, because I know they're all busy and spending, even if it's just 30 minutes on a podcast, is quite a big ask. so really thinking about how we can give them value is something that's that I think is the way to go. And then of course, also showing that we know why we're asking this person, because I mean, I myself get a lot of like requests randomly and you're just like, well, then take just another random person, because obviously you, you're not interested in the specific story or whatever it is that I have. You just make a mass email. And I think for this specific high-stake people, and I mean, if we then translate it into the startup. world when it comes to like this big clients, so to say that not just go for a freemium or like free trial, but really have to be convinced. It's all about like having the right set up, the value adds, the research. So they really know and feel, Hey, this person has really understood what my pain point is, has understood where they can help. And so I think this is also, and then of course we have the luxury that many of our podcast guests, I had the luxury to work with them in the past. had the luxury to meeting them. And so that certainly helps to kind of convince them maybe with the WhatsApp that they should come on our podcast, especially at the beginning where no one knew us. But do you have anything to add there maybe? I mean, as you said, it's a lot of persistence, right? We do have a lot of situations where someone has to cancel because the busy schedule is extremely busy and we have to on short notice shift to another date or time. And we use something, I think we can say that quite successfully and really appreciate that from our guests, what you would call referrals. So we basically ask them at the end of the conversation when the recording is over, who else we can, we should have on

on the show because then they know what we're, what we're doing. And we also, I think, have to say that this has been quite successful and we're actually very grateful for that and to have received a lot of introductions that way. One question, which we also always ask on the newsletter and which also many people asked us in the, in the past months, what books, podcasts or articles. inspire you or have helped you along the way. So what would you say there? What has really been a big support for you, Melanie? I mean, will shamelessly use that as an advertisement for the list that we just published this week. Because, and I feel this is also why I'm allowed to do that, because we now every half a year publish for the summer break, we publish the books list for the winter break, so for Christmas break. And I have to, like, I put the condition that at least I have read half of it for everything. So I don't suggest anything that I haven't read or watched. so, yes, I'm still in the middle of it with some of it, but I have at least been in the middle of all of the books. so, I mean, of course, also with my responsibilities at the AI center and just my curiosity about AI, I read a lot of books about AI. Currently, like I just finished the empire of AI. So it's called the dreams and nightmares in Sam Elfman's open AI by Karen Howe, which was very interesting. It reads like a, like a, how do you say a crime book, just about all the happenings. And I mean, I'm already looking for edition two because like the story doesn't end. in this category, there is also one that I was listening actually.

for a while while running because I love to run and listen to audio books. And it's a thinking machine from Steph, Witt about Jensen, Hwang and Nvidia. so, so I think very, very, a very important topic. then we, another thing that was actually a recommendation from one of our podcast guests, Andreas Klinger is Breckneck. So China's, China's quest to engineer the future. And I found it so insightful. Because he, the author himself, he lived in China and he lived in the US and he basically compares those two economies. And it just gives you a lot of things that I learned from this book. It's really when I read about, for example, Nvidia or other, like the TikTok or so, but then also compare it with what is happening in the US. it shared a lot of context that then made it very very clear or just like gave more insights on where this is coming from. Yes, that are some of the books that I just found very interesting. Yeah. I mean, if I had to pick one in the past that had a huge, that helped me a lot. It was Scaling People because it's a book about really like, do you like from what frameworks you can use to hire, how can you do like one-on-ones with your teammates? and that was certainly something, if you ask me what helped you a lot, was this books because she was the CEO of Stripe and basically shared all the practices and frameworks. And I found that very, very helpful. What about you? I think in general, I just have to say anything, any talk podcast interview from Ben Horowitz. mean, he also has a very famous book, obviously, hard things about hard things, but I really, really like his thoughts and reflections on leadership and some of the stuff about decision-making. There is a lot of material out there. Obviously, A16Z has a lot of material.

from him and Marc Andreessen as well, which I find very, very helpful and very tangible because they have lived through it. And as a second thing, and I know he's a controversial figure to some people, but any talk and anything from Jeff Bezos and what I mean is not like documentaries about him. mean, obviously they can be very interesting and critical as well, but there is on YouTube some very old videos from him of speeches that he gave, Ted talks that he gave and some university lectures really from 1998, sometimes 2003, which are very interesting. And he shares a lot of stuff there about leadership, about innovation, about decision-making, also personal decision-making on really hard decisions. I find these pretty inspiring actually. And obviously he has business-wise achieved a lot. And there is some wisdom which he shared there, which I found pretty insightful. One other question and one of the last ones for today, we also ask to our readers, because obviously one of our brand promises is, well, how do you scale a business from Europe? But how do you keep sane while doing it? What are some habits or activities that keep you sane while doing the job or the different jobs you do? think there are three things. One, it's really sports. So I try to go running every morning. And of course it doesn't always like work out that I have the time or think I don't have the time. But most often you always find even if it's just half an hour, but I also use that to kind of put it as a, as a red flag. So if I haven't been running for two weeks, then I need to change something in my life because I just know that this really is something where I can.

recharge energy. As I said, I often listen to podcasts while I'm running, so I don't do it for running marathons. I really just do it to kind of be in the fresh air and also have me time. So that is certainly something. And then one thing, it's really like keeping my family, my closest friends very close to me. and I'm, I'm very grateful also for the friends that I have that have nothing to do with startup land. Like really, they sometimes don't even understand what I'm doing. And I'm very grateful for that because it grounds me. It gives me a perspective. It also puts everything into like in relative terms, because I know there's also a life outside of this whole hostel and, and, VC and startup world. And I find it very... Yeah, it's just, gives the right perspective to not take yourself too serious. And when it comes to really basically maybe a growth hack, because that I think is also a question that we normally ask. And it also has to do with like what I do to keeping me sane. I feel like stepping back from time to time, and I always have to remind myself to do it more often. But one thing I do every year and I'm currently again in the process of it. And I know we have talked about it in our last. episode last year when we also did somehow a reflection of this year. I talked about it, but it's really this annual live review where it is a template that we will also add to this week's newsletter. It is a template that another two people have actually created, but I found it so helpful because it first kind of lets you plot the moments and milestones of this year. And then it goes into reflection and examination of like the success, the growth, the failure, the failing short, like stuff that you told yourself you would do, but you didn't and really asked you the hard questions, like what was standing in the way, but also really about the people, the relationships that you have, like who gave you energy, who kind of maybe was draining you. Is this a person that you still want to have in your life and stuff like that about lessons and themes and really assessing your life right now?

And then you have the possibility to kind of plan for the new year ahead with new goals, growth, moving on habits, behaviors, fears. But it really also asks you like, okay, what are the next three steps that you want to take, let's say in January to actually achieve that? And for me, this is every year I do that now for many, many years. This has been so, so valuable. And especially now that I have a whole decks of of papers from the past editions, there are certain patterns that come up again and again. I always tell myself, why is this still a challenge? But then there are other things where it's just like, I can also be proud and say, hey, wow, it's really, really nice to see how far you came. And I just find it very helpful to step back and really reflect why I'm here, why I'm doing this, and what do I want to change in my life to actually have more of what really helps me and makes me happy or just more relaxed or a better human being. And it's introspection, right? It's what we talked about earlier. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, definitely it's sports and family and friends. As you said, I have actually one additional thing which I have been doing for the past couple of months now, swimming, swimming in the river. So now in winter time, it's obviously pretty cold, but we meet, I meet with a friend. We try to meet like four or five times a week, depending on the time or time depends a little bit on the day, but What about you?

Try to meet, jump into the river, which is super cold, swim a little bit around and go out and then do some exercises. And that is, that is actually very refreshing in a literal sense, but it's, but it's mentally very refreshing. And I've read that it's not only obviously healthy for your body and for your immune system, but it actually releases some hormones in your, in your brain, which let's say make you happy or something like that. I can really recommend it. There is actually a lot of people doing it on where we go. And I know that also from other cities, it's pretty popular and I can really recommend it, but it does need some, let's say, persuasion, personal persuasion. So much. I did it once and didn't really feel it. So a huge appreciation that you're doing that. sometimes you also have to figure out what you don't do and be fine. Yeah. And that's actually true. And mainly that comes down to this. Not every framework you read about in business is applicable to you. Not every framework you read about work-life balance is applicable for you. you really have to find it out on your own, right? And it also changes over time.

so much. So much. But hey, we're at the end of it. I think this was it, like where we had this wonderful replay or reflection of the past year where we tried to give our listeners more insights of who we are and why we're asking certain questions. I always find it funny, especially those who Now what's better from time to time, tell us, you could really, it's funny to know this backstory behind it, why you're asking this, but what we also hear from our guests and maybe that is also something about the question that we had, like once we get the guests, like we often get the feedback that we really ask the questions that where you can feel within their done that. And I think that also makes the relationship much, much deeper. And it also keeps us doing what we're doing. But now. I think this only leaves us with a huge last thank you very much to our dear listeners. Thanks for being on this journey with us. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, feedbacks, ideas, how we can make this podcast or newsletter better. We are doing this all as we said, beside our 100 % jobs and your feedback is really what keeps us going. So please don't stop sharing it with us. we have to, so I have to add the pleasure to actually end this episode with two wonderful voice messages from Luca and Isabella, who didn't ask a question, but who shared why they're actually listening to follow the gradient. And so I think we leave it at that. And wish you all happy holidays. May 2026 become the best and most inspiring year you've ever had. And see you on the other side of New Year's Eve, because the next episode will already be in the first week of January. Thank you so much. And now let's dive into what Luca and Isabella have to say.

Hi, I'm Isabella and Adrian's episode about mental health was actually the first one I listened to on Follow the Grading and it really stuck with me. It opened a side of entrepreneurship that we really don't hear about enough, which is the mental and emotional toll it can take. This episode encouraged me to take better care of my mental health and that is why I think everyone in the entrepreneurial space or trying to start their journey in this startup world should listen to follow the gradient. It's honest, it's human, and I think it makes you feel seen in a space that often overlooks the personal side of the whole journey. Hi, I'm Luca, co-founder of Bevy and I listen to Follow the Gradient because there's no other podcast with such tangible and real co-founder views. From how to fail to how to scale, you have it all. Thanks a lot, Melanie and Christian, and keep doing what you do.

And this was another episode of our Follow the Gradient podcast. And now we would love to hear from you. How did you like it? What should we improve? Do you have any suggestions, ideas or dream podcast guests? Please let us know. Thank you and see you again next week.